Welcome!

IBM Cloud Authors: Elizabeth White, Sematext Blog, Pat Romanski, Carmen Gonzalez, Yeshim Deniz

Blog Feed Post

The Attack of Oracle Guest

Last October I published a post that identified the features that both JBoss Data Grid and Oracle Coherence provide (link). My goal was to establish a baseline for the features that a data grid should provide. It was not to state that one data grid was better than the other. Little did I know an Oracle employee would respond by attacking Red Hat, its engineers, and myself.

It is fear? Is it hostility? I don’t know.

I have engaged in discussions with competitors before. Roman and I engaged in a competitive discussion in response to one of my posts comparing IBM WebSphere and JBoss EAP (link). However, we both conducted ourselves in a professional manner. I’ve engaged in competitive discussions with Spring evangelists, but we focused on the technology.

I always enjoy reading the discussions between Cameron, Nikita, and Nati on the TheServerSide. I find their discussions to be insightful. They conduct themselves in a professional manner. To me, it looks like they respect each other and they respect each others products.

To be fair, this is just a single anonymous visitor. If they had not left a comment while connected to Oracle’s network, I would not have known that they work for Oracle. However, I would have inferred it.

Let the show begin.

Oracle Guest

I’m also interested in this question too RK. JDG lack of references that could corroborate performance majority against Coherence. Coherence in the other hand has a lot of public cases that shows how scalable, reliable and fast it is. It is the word’s first in-memory computing platform of the world, so this blog doesn’t offer credibility at all, mostly because Shane is a marketing guy from Red Hat.

He’s just using a old marketing technique to improve reliability of their offers product, comparing it with another one which is leader in its industry, like Coherence. Comparing with Coherence would pass the idea of “JDG is so good just like Coherence, so instead of buying Coherence, buy from Red Hat” but in fact it is not true. JDG should implement A LOT OF features to be comparable with Coherence.


Me

I published the results of a performance test (JDG 6.0.1) last December (link). I have written a technical white paper that includes the results of a number of performance tests (JDG 6.0.1). However, it is awaiting publication. I expect it to be made available via the Red Hat Customer Portal. In addition, I will be publishing the results of a few performance tests (JDG 6.1) executed on better hardware to How to JBoss within the next two weeks.

I executed the performance tests with RadarGun (link), an open source project for data grid performance testing. When I published the results, I provided both the RadarGun and the JDG configuration files. The best way for an organization to select a data grid based on performance and reliability is to configure and execute their own performance tests based on their own requirements in their own controlled environment.

Oracle Guest

Those results compares JDG against Terracotta from Software AG, not with Coherence from Oracle. You cannot say at all that JDG is better than Coherence because you’ve never tested. Again, not reliable statements coming from you. You’ve tried to use a Terracotta comparison to generalize JDG performance results. Lets call Oracle, VMware, IBM, Gigaspaces and TIBCO to participate of the tests.

Me

I have never stated that JDG performs better than Oracle Coherence. Thus, I am unaware of these “not reliable statements”. Can you could point them out? You are welcome to call Oracle, VMWare, IBM, GigaSpaces, and TIBCO. They are welcome to use the my RadarGun and JDG configuration files to configure and execute their own performance tests with RadarGun. This is essentially what I did after coming across the performance test results published by Terracotta. I simply used the parameters that they made available. As I mentioned previously, a number of organizations evaluating JDG are doing just that. They are executing performance tests against both JDG and Oracle Coherence using RadarGun or YCSB (Yahoo! Cloud Serving Benchmark).


Me

Tongosol Coherence was an innovative product in its day, but that day was several years ago. I do not question that it remains reliable. However, there have been a number of advancements in distributed systems over the past few years. JBoss Data Grid brings together the reliability of the previous generation of data grids and the innovation of the next generation of data grids.

Oracle Guest

For some unique features of Coherence like its non-blocking I/O TCP/IP network based on TCMP, which allow it to achive better results with distributed transactions, fail-over detection (the fastest of the industry) WAN replication with latency issues due geographical distribution and the HTTP Session offload from AppServers. Not mentioning integration with A LOT OF AppServers like WebLogic, GlassFish, Websphere, Tomcat, IIS, Resin and even your JBoss AS. JDG only gives support for which is from Red Hat. What a nice example of being “open” hãm ?! :)

Me

The TCMP features that you listed are not unique to TCMP. They are provided by JGroups as well. Those features include non-blocking I/O (NIO), failure detection, and cross site (WAN) replication. I would hope that Oracle Coherence*Web would support both Oracle WebLogic and Oracle GlassFish. Is that really a feature? If so, Red Hat provides it as well. JDG supports both JBoss EAP and JBoss EWS (Apache Tomcat). However, there is no reason for an organization to use JDG or Oracle Coherence*Web for session replication with IBM WebSphere.


Me

Red Hat public references include both Chicago Board Options Exchange (CBOE) and Cisco, and they have both presented at Red Hat Summit / JBoss World. I can’t think of an environment with higher demands for both performance and reliability than financial trading. The Pentaho BI Platform / Server includes a plugin for Infinispan (link). There is no Oracle Coherence plugin.

Oracle Guest

Only this? Coherence has thousands of customer references, including mission critical ones that for years NEVER, I mean, NEVER restarted their servers. Come on, you can do better than this. Red Hat (you) should be a little bit more humble when talking about leaders like Oracle. Someday Red Hat will be a huge company, I don’t doubt that, but that didn’t happened so far and will take some time.

Me

Can you point out a list that includes thousands of public customer references for Oracle Coherence? The only list that I found includes 39 customer references, and that list includes duplicates (link). You state that thousands of Oracle Coherence customers have NEVER restarted their servers. That is a bold claim. Do you have evidence to support such a claim? After all, servers may be restarted to upgrade the hardware and / or operating system. That, and enterprise software typically has a finite life cycle. Has not a just one of those thousands of Oracle Coherence customers ever upgraded their original version to the latest version? I suspect that you and I have different interpretations of “huge company”. I find it ironic that you demand humility while showing disrespect.


Me

Are you stating that because the company you work for (Oracle) productized (well, acquired) a data grid before the company I work for (Red Hat) and that my role is now in marketing, I lack credibility in the data grid domain? I would advise against such a statement. My technical knowledge of data grids is second to none, and it is not derived from my role in marketing. I have worked with a number of enterprise organizations in the financial, telecommunication, and media sectors in a developer / architect capacity in my previous role to integrate data grids in demanding environments.

Oracle Guest

Oh yes? Give me examples of data grid technologies you’ve worked with, scenarios of data partitioning and JVM tuning you’ve implemented for, entity domain versioning strategies you’ve designed it, hashCode algorithms strategies that you’ve proposed for a complex based key node, examples of KPIs that you retrieved from JMX and from the DG, and of course, examples of the following DG scenarios: average latency less than 600 microseconds, 5k TPS or higher considering a transaction with a minimum of 15KB of size, client applications both based on Java, C++, .NET and “the rest of world” that could be accessed with REST or SOAP, projects with more than 20K hours of duration (real one projects) instead of stupid POCs, usage of at least three serious data grids technologies including Coherence, GemFire, Websphere eXtreme Scale, Gigapaces, TIBCO ActiveSpaces, etc.

Me

I do not question your knowledge and experience, nor am I going to. I am dumbfounded as to why you feel justified in questioning mine.

I look at it like this. You have pilots, and you have mechanics. You have users, and you have engineers. A pilot knows how the controls work, a mechanic knows the parts work. When it comes to JDG, I have been a full time pilot and a part time mechanic. However, the activities that you have mentioned are those of a user, not of an engineer. Further, they are not specific to data grids. It’s one thing to talk about metrics, latency, and throughput. It’s another to talk about concurrency, algorithms, and how distributed systems work.

JVM tuning. I have posted a handful of notes on both OS and JVM tuning (link / link / link). Instead of talking about JVM tuning, let’s talk about implementations of ConcurrentMap (link). JMX. I have monitored and analyzed the performance of JDG with JBoss Operations Network, in-house tools, and BTrace. Here is a list of JMX attributes and operations for JDG (link). An average of latency of 600 microseconds is not particularly impressive in the financial trading industry. Nor is 5,000 transactions per second. Did I not mention, the fact that I collaborated with their engineers, and that co-presented with them at Red Hat Summit / JBoss World? Instead of talking about latency and throughput, let’s talk about data structures and eviction algorithms (link). I’ll be honest, I have not worked on projects that required integration in a heterogeneous environment. Those that have, have done so with REST and memcache. Oracle Coherence doesn’t support the memcache protocol, does it? Instead of talking about REST and SOAP, let’s talk about local / remote transaction contexts and the number of remote procedure calls (RPC) required for optimistic / pessimistic locking. Partitioning and hashing. JDG has implemented consistent hashing and virtual nodes. A modern solution. It uses an implementation of the excellent MurmurHash3 algorithm (link). It does not rely on dated implementation based on centralized and / or manual hashing. Does Oracle Coherence? Instead of talking about hashing, let’s talk about vector clocks.

Let’s talk about rebalancing and push / pull implementations.

Of course, that is the benefit of open source software. Users can be engineers. The can understand the implementation by studying the code. That is exactly what I did. I studied the code, I modified the code, I created and submitted patches, and I engaged in discussions with Red Hat engineers on implementations details. With proprietary software, users can only be users.

Asking how fast someone has flown will not reveal how much they know about planes.

Are you familiar with all of the projects that I have been on? I ask because I’m uncertain as to why you would describe them as “stupid POCs”. I do not think that the engineers at CBOE or any of the other organizations that I have collaborated with would appreciate you calling the work that they put into production “stupid POCs”. I know I don’t.


Me

How am I “improving the reliability” of JBoss Data Grid by identifying the functionality that both JBoss Data Grid and Oracle Coherence provide? Do you not believe that JBoss Data Grid has implemented A LOT OF features? The functionality descibed in this post represents nearly all of the features and benefits listed in the Oracle Coherence data sheet (link). JBoss Data Grid lacks a few features provided by Oracle Coherence. Oracle Coherence lacks a few features provided by JBoss Data Grid. Would you say that Oracle Coherence has not implemented A LOT OF features because it lacks a few features provided by JBoss Data Grid?

Oracle Guest

No! It just had integrated a couple open-source existing technologies into a new ecosystem and productized in a minimum level to take some money from the customers with subscriptions. Nothing really new, innovated, creative or respectable. The type of thing Red Hat likes to do: take existing technologies, combine them and make some money.

Me

What are these open-source, existing technologies that you are referring to? Could they be Infinispan? Of course they exist, Red Hat created them. It would be hard to productize something that does not exist. I find it both disrespectful and insulting to Red Hat engineers to describe their work as not new, innovative, creative, or respectable.  You said “take existing technologies, combine them and make some money”. Interesting. Is that not what Oracle did with Tangosol Coherence? Oracle purchased their data grid. Red Hat created its data grid.

Oracle Guest

You really knows to play with words, starting with the usage of the word “nearly” :)

You forgot some key features that only Coherence has like: Elastic Data (off-heap and SSD storage of data), distributed GC against any type of storage and cache layout, ability to handle thousands of GB being able to handle even terabytes of data. Don’t came say to me that with on-heap allocation and regular JVM like HotSpot (or OpenJDK which is even worse) you could allocate terabytes of data. Native SDKs for C/C++ and .NET, Continuous Queries, support for many AppServers rather than only JBoss, integration with Java EE 6 using @Resource annotation, monitoring and management capabilities both integrated with the product and with other external tools like Enterprise Manager, integration with CEP world to enrich events and being the clustering enabled mechanism to handle fail-over scenarios, security features that could deal with scenarios of authentication, authorization, SSL and load-balancers (Eg: BigIP) integration. Pre-built filters and a powerful query language that could make easier for the developers to interact with the cache instead of force them to write Java code, support for Hibernate, Toplink, EclipseLink, GoldenGate, etc. Thousands of pre-implemented scenario patterns in the product and externally with the incubator strategy started by Tangosol and now owned by Oracle. Oh and of course: support for a high performance serialization strategy and a highly scalable TCP/IP implementation like TCMP. Not mentioning that support for InfiniBand based networks.

Me

I admit that off-heap storage is an interesting concept. However, I question how practical it is. I would not recommend storing a TB of data on a single node with or without off-heap storage. I recommend partitioning physical servers into multiple virtual servers. It increases node portability while reducing the effects (e.g. rebalancing) of adding or removing nodes. JDG supports Java EE integration with both @resource and @inject. Does Oracle Coherence not support @inject? JDG includes management and monitoring as well. JDG clients are smart clients. It is not practical to load balance requests. Can you point me to a list of these “thousands of pre-implemented scenario patterns”? JDG supports both high performance serialization (JBoss Marshalling) and a highly scalable TCP / IP implementation (JGroups). However, JDG does not require developers to write additional code to use high performance serialization unlike Oracle Coherence and Portable Object Format (POF) (link). I will give you Infiniband, but it may not matter for long (link).

Update: I thought when you referred to off-heap storage that you referring to off-heap memory. I had not realized that “off-heap storage” is the new marketing term for “disk storage”. It turns out that Elastic Data is marketing for “overflow to disk” (link). This was a featured provided by Ehcache 10 years ago. It’s a feature provided by JDG. You mentioned 1TB of data. However, Elastic Data can only support up to 100GB per node. It is not a persistence solution. It does not support eviction. It should not be used with aggregation (i.e. map / reduce) or entry processors.

Oracle Guest

All of the “unique” features provided by JDG are not considered by real customers, independent analysts like Gartner, Forrester and IDC as really important. Are features that just align with the Red Hat strategy to force its entrance in the Big Data world, which on the other hand is a terrible strategy because to a real Big Data strategy Red Hat lacks A LOT OF technology stacks compared with real Big Data vendors like Oracle, EMC and IBM. Just an example, even Oracle does not consider Coherence as its Big Data strategy. When Oracle talk about Coherence, they’re talking about caching, grid and in-memory computing scenarios, which fits perfectly to elastic data grid technologies.

Me

It find it funny that justify the lack of features by stating that they are not important to analysts. Will you go on record as stating that Oracle Coherence will never implement JDG features that it lacks? Software evolves. New features become standard features. Personally, I think data grids will continue to incorporate features provided by NoSQL implementations. Eventual consistency comes to mind. What is a “real’ customer”? Is there another kind of customer? What do these features have to do with Red Hat’s big data strategy? Did you see the Red Hat big data announcement (link)? It was quite clear on what is and what is not our big data strategy. Just as Coherence is not Oracle’s big data strategy, JDG is not Red Hat’s big data strategy. We too place our data grid in the context of in-memory distributed data and parallel processing. I would expect a data grid to “fit perfectly to elastic data grid technologies” as it is, after all, a data grid and one of the defining characteristics of a data grid is that it is elastic. However, there is some overlap between in-memory data grids, NoSQL, and big data platforms. They all distribute data and implement parallel processing. The provide data locality. As such, in-memory data grids fit perfectly inside of broader big data solutions.


Read the original blog entry...

More Stories By Daniel Thompson

I curate the content on this page, but the credit goes to my talented colleagues for the posts that you see here. Much of what you read on this page is the work of friends at How to JBoss, and I encourage you to drop by the site at http://www.howtojboss.com for some of the best JBoss technical and non-technical content for developers, architects and technology executives on the Web.

@ThingsExpo Stories
"We build IoT infrastructure products - when you have to integrate different devices, different systems and cloud you have to build an application to do that but we eliminate the need to build an application. Our products can integrate any device, any system, any cloud regardless of protocol," explained Peter Jung, Chief Product Officer at Pulzze Systems, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at @ThingsExpo, held November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA.
The cloud promises new levels of agility and cost-savings for Big Data, data warehousing and analytics. But it’s challenging to understand all the options – from IaaS and PaaS to newer services like HaaS (Hadoop as a Service) and BDaaS (Big Data as a Service). In her session at @BigDataExpo at @ThingsExpo, Hannah Smalltree, a director at Cazena, provided an educational overview of emerging “as-a-service” options for Big Data in the cloud. This is critical background for IT and data professionals...
Internet of @ThingsExpo has announced today that Chris Matthieu has been named tech chair of Internet of @ThingsExpo 2017 New York The 7th Internet of @ThingsExpo will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, New York. Chris Matthieu is the co-founder and CTO of Octoblu, a revolutionary real-time IoT platform recently acquired by Citrix. Octoblu connects things, systems, people and clouds to a global mesh network allowing users to automate and control design flo...
The WebRTC Summit New York, to be held June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY, announces that its Call for Papers is now open. Topics include all aspects of improving IT delivery by eliminating waste through automated business models leveraging cloud technologies. WebRTC Summit is co-located with 20th International Cloud Expo and @ThingsExpo. WebRTC is the future of browser-to-browser communications, and continues to make inroads into the traditional, difficult, plug-in web co...
Amazon has gradually rolled out parts of its IoT offerings, but these are just the tip of the iceberg. In addition to optimizing their backend AWS offerings, Amazon is laying the ground work to be a major force in IoT - especially in the connected home and office. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Chris Kocher, founder and managing director of Grey Heron, explained how Amazon is extending its reach to become a major force in IoT by building on its dominant cloud IoT platform, its Dash Button strat...
Complete Internet of Things (IoT) embedded device security is not just about the device but involves the entire product’s identity, data and control integrity, and services traversing the cloud. A device can no longer be looked at as an island; it is a part of a system. In fact, given the cross-domain interactions enabled by IoT it could be a part of many systems. Also, depending on where the device is deployed, for example, in the office building versus a factory floor or oil field, security ha...
In addition to all the benefits, IoT is also bringing new kind of customer experience challenges - cars that unlock themselves, thermostats turning houses into saunas and baby video monitors broadcasting over the internet. This list can only increase because while IoT services should be intuitive and simple to use, the delivery ecosystem is a myriad of potential problems as IoT explodes complexity. So finding a performance issue is like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.
The idea of comparing data in motion (at the sensor level) to data at rest (in a Big Data server warehouse) with predictive analytics in the cloud is very appealing to the industrial IoT sector. The problem Big Data vendors have, however, is access to that data in motion at the sensor location. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Scott Allen, CMO of FreeWave, discussed how as IoT is increasingly adopted by industrial markets, there is going to be an increased demand for sensor data from the outermos...
Data is the fuel that drives the machine learning algorithmic engines and ultimately provides the business value. In his session at 20th Cloud Expo, Ed Featherston, director/senior enterprise architect at Collaborative Consulting, will discuss the key considerations around quality, volume, timeliness, and pedigree that must be dealt with in order to properly fuel that engine.
In his general session at 19th Cloud Expo, Manish Dixit, VP of Product and Engineering at Dice, discussed how Dice leverages data insights and tools to help both tech professionals and recruiters better understand how skills relate to each other and which skills are in high demand using interactive visualizations and salary indicator tools to maximize earning potential. Manish Dixit is VP of Product and Engineering at Dice. As the leader of the Product, Engineering and Data Sciences team at D...
SYS-CON Events has announced today that Roger Strukhoff has been named conference chair of Cloud Expo and @ThingsExpo 2017 New York. The 20th Cloud Expo and 7th @ThingsExpo will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. "The Internet of Things brings trillions of dollars of opportunity to developers and enterprise IT, no matter how you measure it," stated Roger Strukhoff. "More importantly, it leverages the power of devices and the Internet to enable us all to im...
Whether your IoT service is connecting cars, homes, appliances, wearable, cameras or other devices, one question hangs in the balance – how do you actually make money from this service? The ability to turn your IoT service into profit requires the ability to create a monetization strategy that is flexible, scalable and working for you in real-time. It must be a transparent, smoothly implemented strategy that all stakeholders – from customers to the board – will be able to understand and comprehe...
"Once customers get a year into their IoT deployments, they start to realize that they may have been shortsighted in the ways they built out their deployment and the key thing I see a lot of people looking at is - how can I take equipment data, pull it back in an IoT solution and show it in a dashboard," stated Dave McCarthy, Director of Products at Bsquare Corporation, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at @ThingsExpo, held November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA.
What happens when the different parts of a vehicle become smarter than the vehicle itself? As we move toward the era of smart everything, hundreds of entities in a vehicle that communicate with each other, the vehicle and external systems create a need for identity orchestration so that all entities work as a conglomerate. Much like an orchestra without a conductor, without the ability to secure, control, and connect the link between a vehicle’s head unit, devices, and systems and to manage the ...
Everyone knows that truly innovative companies learn as they go along, pushing boundaries in response to market changes and demands. What's more of a mystery is how to balance innovation on a fresh platform built from scratch with the legacy tech stack, product suite and customers that continue to serve as the business' foundation. In his General Session at 19th Cloud Expo, Michael Chambliss, Head of Engineering at ReadyTalk, discussed why and how ReadyTalk diverted from healthy revenue and mor...
As data explodes in quantity, importance and from new sources, the need for managing and protecting data residing across physical, virtual, and cloud environments grow with it. Managing data includes protecting it, indexing and classifying it for true, long-term management, compliance and E-Discovery. Commvault can ensure this with a single pane of glass solution – whether in a private cloud, a Service Provider delivered public cloud or a hybrid cloud environment – across the heterogeneous enter...
Financial Technology has become a topic of intense interest throughout the cloud developer and enterprise IT communities. Accordingly, attendees at the upcoming 20th Cloud Expo at the Javits Center in New York, June 6-8, 2017, will find fresh new content in a new track called FinTech.
You have great SaaS business app ideas. You want to turn your idea quickly into a functional and engaging proof of concept. You need to be able to modify it to meet customers' needs, and you need to deliver a complete and secure SaaS application. How could you achieve all the above and yet avoid unforeseen IT requirements that add unnecessary cost and complexity? You also want your app to be responsive in any device at any time. In his session at 19th Cloud Expo, Mark Allen, General Manager of...
The 20th International Cloud Expo has announced that its Call for Papers is open. Cloud Expo, to be held June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, brings together Cloud Computing, Big Data, Internet of Things, DevOps, Containers, Microservices and WebRTC to one location. With cloud computing driving a higher percentage of enterprise IT budgets every year, it becomes increasingly important to plant your flag in this fast-expanding business opportunity. Submit your speaking proposal ...
Bert Loomis was a visionary. This general session will highlight how Bert Loomis and people like him inspire us to build great things with small inventions. In their general session at 19th Cloud Expo, Harold Hannon, Architect at IBM Bluemix, and Michael O'Neill, Strategic Business Development at Nvidia, discussed the accelerating pace of AI development and how IBM Cloud and NVIDIA are partnering to bring AI capabilities to "every day," on-demand. They also reviewed two "free infrastructure" pr...